By Michael Saltzman
On Twitter @CandlestickWill
So many players, coaches, front office people and members of the ownership group have had their hand in the three championships the San Francisco Giants have won over the last five years. But who is the most responsible. Nothing like a top 10 list to debate who had the biggest impact and who is the biggest reason the Giants are being referred to as a dynasty.
The 6 Castoffs & Misfits: Andres Torres, Freddy Sanchez, Aubrey Huff, Pat Burrell, Juan Uribe and Cody Ross
The Giants had never won a World Series in San Francisco until these 6 men became Giants. All 6 had important roles in a Giants patchwork lineup that out hit the Braves, Phillies and Rangers in 2010. What makes these men unique in this historic run of the Giants is that none of them were able to do much for the Giants outside of 2010. Torres, Sanchez and Uribe were members of the Giants in 2009, but played smaller roles. Huff, Burrell and Ross had terrific numbers as Giants in 2010.
Wins Above Replacement in 2010:
Aubrey Huff (5.7)
Andres Torres (5.3)
Pat Burrell (2.1)
Freddy Sanchez (1.8)
Juan Uribe (1.5)
Cody Ross, who only played a month for the Giants before the post-season, made up for it in October, hitting .294 with 15 hits, 10 runs batted in and 5 home runs or a 1.076 OPS. Andres Torres highest WAR after 2010 was a 1.4 he had for the Mets in 2012.
Without these 6 men, the Giants don't win in 2010. Without winning it all in 2010, is there any talk of a dynasty?
Marco Scutaro:
What the misfits were to 2010, Scutaro was to 2012. Injuries plagued his 2013 season that he tried to play through and ultimately his back wouldn't let him play in 2014. He was recently designated for assignment by the Giants. However, his impact on the Giants in 2012 was enormous. He had a 2.1 WAR despite only 268 at bats. He hit .500 in the NLCS alone with 14 hits and a 1.140 OPS. His patience at the plate and his influence in the locker room helped the entire roster play smarter and more efficient. While he doesn't make my top 10, he certainly is one of the most influential figures in this dynasty for the Giants.
The Top 10
#10: Ownership Group
I'm not going to pretend to know all the interworkings of the front office to know who among the group approved the salary raises for our homegrown players or told Brian Sabean he could make a certain trade or sign a certain player.
According to Baseball Prospectus the Giants went from a payroll of $95M at the end of 2009 to a current payroll of $179M in 2014. That kind of financial commitment has as much to do with the success of the franchise as any other factor.
The combination of re-signing homegrown talent and trading or signing players to free agent contracts, wouldn't be possible without the support of the ownership group.
#9: Coaching Staff
Again, it's hard to designate one member of the staff as head and shoulders above the others. Dave Righetti, the team's pitching coach, has been tremendous in preparing the staff over the years and specifically during the playoff rounds where the Giants have out pitched some great staffs. But How can we say that his impact on the staff is more valuable than bullpen coach Mark Gardner or bullpen catcher Bill Hayes. What Henry "Bam Bam" Muelens has done as the hitting coach has been vastly underrated. What Roberto Kelly and Tim Flannery have done at 1st and 3rd base respectively, has been incredible. If you don't think what they've done is valuable, go through the twitter response to Flannery announcing his retirement. And maybe the most influential part of the staff is bench coach Ron Wotus. Kelly and Wotus were in charge of the infield and outfield positioning. But Wotus was also the right hand man of Bruce Bochy. Bochy has said repeatedly how valuable his staff has been and how much responsibility he has given them. Wotus, for example, has been in charge of Spring Training camp for years now.
#8. Pablo Sandoval
Fans owe the Panda a standing ovation the next time Boston comes to San Francisco. For any animosity they may have over him choosing to leave the Bay Area, needs to be trumped by the three championships he was a part of. As the MVP of the World Series in 2012, he became a instant legend with three home runs in Game 1, joining the likes of Babe Ruth and Reggie Jackson. However, it's his overall playoff performances that are truly outstanding.
In 2010, 2012 and 2014 he slashed a .344/.389/.545/.935 postseason line. Sandoval also has the 2nd highest WAR among hitters since 2010 among Giants.
For all the weight issues, contract disputes, and slumps, Sandoval was most productive when it mattered most. That can't ever be forgotten.
#7. Hunter Pence
Despite only being a part of two of the three championships, it's hard not to rank Pence even higher than 7th for what he means to the team on and off the field. He is the heartbeat of the Giants and the team is always better with him in the lineup. The effort Pence gives on ground out to 2nd base is why he leads the Giants every season in infield hits. The passion Pence plays with is why the team always seems to find ways to win.
His speech in Cincinnati with the Giants on the brink of elimination was the stuff of legends, and the fact that it led to winning six elimination games that post-season is tremendous.
#6. Core 4
The Giants have looked very different over the years and from the castoffs to Hunter Pence and Angel Pagan to Andres Torres and Gregor
Blanco, the team has continually brought in new faces. One of the constants has
been the pitching staff, and specifically the bullpen. Javy Lopez, Jeremy
Affeldt, Santiago Casilla and Sergio Romo have each won three World Series as a
member of the Giants. While their roles have changed throughout the run, their
effectiveness hasn't.
In 2010, Brian Wilson was the closer, while the Core 4 were all used as setup men depending on the matchups.
In 2012, Sergio Romo was the closer, with the Affeldt, Casilla and Lopez each playing critical setup roles again.
In 2014, it was Santiago Casilla's turn to pitch the 9th inning, but again, all four were lights out throughout the playoffs.
The value of Casilla, Romo, Affeldt and Lopez has been one of the most underrated elements of the Giants dynasty. That is why they deserve such a high ranking. That is also why they are all still members of the best bullpen in baseball.
#5. Tim Lincecum & Matt Cain
It's never been easy for me to decide between the value of Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain and which pitcher has been more valuable during this dynasty. Instead of ranking them separately, I've decided to put them together because this team doesn't win championships without both.
Lincecum had won back to back Cy Young Awards in 2008 and 2009, but his 2010 might be the best year of his career when you combine his regular and post-season. From his 1st ever post-season appearance in 2010 of 8 scoreless innings and 14 strikeouts vs the Braves to his last post-season appearance of 8 innings of 1 run ball and 10 strikeouts vs the Rangers.
Cain had some great seasons as a Giant, but his 2012 was his best. He started the All-Star game, and led the Giants staff by pitching the clinching game of each round of the post-season. When the season was on the line, the Giants went to Cain.
Cain was injured in 2014, and Lincecum was limited to 1.2 innings pitched in the 2014 World Series. However their impact on the pitching staff and their success in 2010 and 2012 was astronomical. The Giants did outhit their opponents in their post-season series, but that was mostly due to the lack of hitting from the other teams. One of the main reasons for that was the starting staff that was led by Lincecum and Cain in 2010 and 2012.
#4. Madison Bumgarner
If 2010 & 2012 were dominated by Lincecum and Cain, 2014 was dominated by Madison Bumgarner. Bumgarner is the only starting pitcher over the last three post-seasons that has had a dominating performance in all three World Series.
His 2014 post-season was one of the greatest we have ever seen. It was so good that he was awarded the Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year, despite not being the best pitcher during the regular season.
It wasn't just 2014 that makes Bumgarner ranked so highly on this list. It was his 8 shutout innings in Game 4 of the 2010 World Series as a 20 year old. It was his 7 shutout innings in Game 2 of the 2012 World Series. And that, combined with his otherworldly 2014 performance, and Bumgarner may go down as the best post-season pitcher of his generation.
Scariest part is he is 25 years old.
If you aren't convinced that Bumgarner is the best pitcher on this staff over the last five years, let's use his bat as the tie breaker.
#3. Brian Sabean, Bobby Evans, Dick Tidrow and John Barr
Everyone in baseball knows Brian Sabean, but few realize the all-star front office he has put together. Bobby Evans, the assistant general manager has taken over for Ned Colletti and the transition has been seamless. His ability to work out contracts with the roster and work with the agents and other teams has been masterful. Dick Tidrow is the team's scouting director and the homegrown talent he has amassed over the years is staggering. John Barr has overseen the amateur and international scouting for the team among other responsibilities. These four men have led the Giants from a good organization to an elite one.
Fans are always quick to remember a front office's worst moves. Sabean and his team have had their share of moves that fans have criticized. From re-signing guys like Huff, Lincecum, Scutaro, or from trades like Carlos Beltran for Zach Wheeler or from not signing guys like Jose Abreu, Rusney Castillo, or Yasmany Tomas.
However, when you look at some of the best moves Sabean has made, it's pretty special.
#2. Bruce Bochy
Bochy will go down as the greatest manager in San Francisco history when he retires. Not because of what he may still do, but with what he has already done. Three championship rings is three more than any other manager. Bochy has always been known as a players manager, but what makes Bochy stand out among other managers in the game today is his ability to get the most out of the entire 25 man roster by playing all 25 guys on the team.
This isn't commonplace around the league, as some guys may go weeks without seeing the field. For all the frustration fans may have with unproductive guys getting playing time, Bochy will always let a guy on his roster earn what he gets. The guys at the end of the bench or the guys at the end of the bullpen will play. They will play and if they perform, they will continue to play. If they don't perform, they will eventually be replaced. Fans may want guys sent away sooner sometimes, but it is clear that there is a method to Bochy's approach. He wants guys to know they were given a chance to succeed and that gets Bochy's teams to play up to their potential.
Other managers have had more talent in each playoff run, but the 9 straight playoff series wins is not by accident. Being the underdog in nearly every series is because the other teams have usually had more talent on paper. However, winning each and every series is because of Bochy as much as nearly everyone in the organization.
#1. Buster Posey
When all is said in done, Posey might be on the Mount Rushmore of Catchers. Johnny Bench and Yogi Berra are the top tier of catchers in baseball history. Both are hall of famers as much because of their numbers on the field as the World Series trophies they helped win. Posey now has 3 World Series trophies he has helped win in his four healthy seasons.
Posey has a 23.3 WAR since his debut in 2010, by far the most for any hitter since that first championship season.
His ability to catch the incredible staff the Giants have had throughout the run is another reason he has shown to be the most valuable player in the last five years.
Posey has a Rookie of the Year trophy, Comeback Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player, as well as a batting title, two Silver Slugger awards, The Hank Aaron award, the Willie Mac award and a two time All-Star.
The scary part is that he is only 27 and so he is just entering his prime.
In 2010, Brian Wilson was the closer, while the Core 4 were all used as setup men depending on the matchups.
In 2012, Sergio Romo was the closer, with the Affeldt, Casilla and Lopez each playing critical setup roles again.
In 2014, it was Santiago Casilla's turn to pitch the 9th inning, but again, all four were lights out throughout the playoffs.
The value of Casilla, Romo, Affeldt and Lopez has been one of the most underrated elements of the Giants dynasty. That is why they deserve such a high ranking. That is also why they are all still members of the best bullpen in baseball.
#5. Tim Lincecum & Matt Cain
It's never been easy for me to decide between the value of Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain and which pitcher has been more valuable during this dynasty. Instead of ranking them separately, I've decided to put them together because this team doesn't win championships without both.
Lincecum had won back to back Cy Young Awards in 2008 and 2009, but his 2010 might be the best year of his career when you combine his regular and post-season. From his 1st ever post-season appearance in 2010 of 8 scoreless innings and 14 strikeouts vs the Braves to his last post-season appearance of 8 innings of 1 run ball and 10 strikeouts vs the Rangers.
Cain had some great seasons as a Giant, but his 2012 was his best. He started the All-Star game, and led the Giants staff by pitching the clinching game of each round of the post-season. When the season was on the line, the Giants went to Cain.
Cain was injured in 2014, and Lincecum was limited to 1.2 innings pitched in the 2014 World Series. However their impact on the pitching staff and their success in 2010 and 2012 was astronomical. The Giants did outhit their opponents in their post-season series, but that was mostly due to the lack of hitting from the other teams. One of the main reasons for that was the starting staff that was led by Lincecum and Cain in 2010 and 2012.
#4. Madison Bumgarner
If 2010 & 2012 were dominated by Lincecum and Cain, 2014 was dominated by Madison Bumgarner. Bumgarner is the only starting pitcher over the last three post-seasons that has had a dominating performance in all three World Series.
His 2014 post-season was one of the greatest we have ever seen. It was so good that he was awarded the Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year, despite not being the best pitcher during the regular season.
It wasn't just 2014 that makes Bumgarner ranked so highly on this list. It was his 8 shutout innings in Game 4 of the 2010 World Series as a 20 year old. It was his 7 shutout innings in Game 2 of the 2012 World Series. And that, combined with his otherworldly 2014 performance, and Bumgarner may go down as the best post-season pitcher of his generation.
Scariest part is he is 25 years old.
If you aren't convinced that Bumgarner is the best pitcher on this staff over the last five years, let's use his bat as the tie breaker.
#3. Brian Sabean, Bobby Evans, Dick Tidrow and John Barr
Everyone in baseball knows Brian Sabean, but few realize the all-star front office he has put together. Bobby Evans, the assistant general manager has taken over for Ned Colletti and the transition has been seamless. His ability to work out contracts with the roster and work with the agents and other teams has been masterful. Dick Tidrow is the team's scouting director and the homegrown talent he has amassed over the years is staggering. John Barr has overseen the amateur and international scouting for the team among other responsibilities. These four men have led the Giants from a good organization to an elite one.
Fans are always quick to remember a front office's worst moves. Sabean and his team have had their share of moves that fans have criticized. From re-signing guys like Huff, Lincecum, Scutaro, or from trades like Carlos Beltran for Zach Wheeler or from not signing guys like Jose Abreu, Rusney Castillo, or Yasmany Tomas.
However, when you look at some of the best moves Sabean has made, it's pretty special.
- Hunter Pence for Tommy Joseph and Nate Shierholtz
- Marco Scutaro for Charlie Culberson
- Angel Pagan for Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez (who both came back to the Giants)
- Pat Burrell for the league minimum
- Cody Ross for nothing
- Aubrey Huff for $3M
- Freddy Sanchez for Tim Alderson
- Juan Uribe, Torres and Gregor Blanco as a spring training invite
- Extensions for Madison Bumgarner, Pablo Sandoval, etc...
- Drafting Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Bumgarner, Brandon Belt, Brandon Crawford, Joe Panik, etc...
#2. Bruce Bochy
Bochy will go down as the greatest manager in San Francisco history when he retires. Not because of what he may still do, but with what he has already done. Three championship rings is three more than any other manager. Bochy has always been known as a players manager, but what makes Bochy stand out among other managers in the game today is his ability to get the most out of the entire 25 man roster by playing all 25 guys on the team.
This isn't commonplace around the league, as some guys may go weeks without seeing the field. For all the frustration fans may have with unproductive guys getting playing time, Bochy will always let a guy on his roster earn what he gets. The guys at the end of the bench or the guys at the end of the bullpen will play. They will play and if they perform, they will continue to play. If they don't perform, they will eventually be replaced. Fans may want guys sent away sooner sometimes, but it is clear that there is a method to Bochy's approach. He wants guys to know they were given a chance to succeed and that gets Bochy's teams to play up to their potential.
Other managers have had more talent in each playoff run, but the 9 straight playoff series wins is not by accident. Being the underdog in nearly every series is because the other teams have usually had more talent on paper. However, winning each and every series is because of Bochy as much as nearly everyone in the organization.
#1. Buster Posey
When all is said in done, Posey might be on the Mount Rushmore of Catchers. Johnny Bench and Yogi Berra are the top tier of catchers in baseball history. Both are hall of famers as much because of their numbers on the field as the World Series trophies they helped win. Posey now has 3 World Series trophies he has helped win in his four healthy seasons.
Posey has a 23.3 WAR since his debut in 2010, by far the most for any hitter since that first championship season.
His ability to catch the incredible staff the Giants have had throughout the run is another reason he has shown to be the most valuable player in the last five years.
Posey has a Rookie of the Year trophy, Comeback Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player, as well as a batting title, two Silver Slugger awards, The Hank Aaron award, the Willie Mac award and a two time All-Star.
The scary part is that he is only 27 and so he is just entering his prime.
Great piece MS! Very well thought out and written... As a bonus, I pretty much agree w all of it; too bad there's not a place for the Brandons, but not sure where they could even slide in... Possibly a case for MadBum could be made for #1, but in the end - I think you're right - gotta go w the Bus... feels "strange" that Timmy&Cain would be "5th", but again - can't really argue w it (possibly could move Sabes/etc "down" a bit, but that would be very difficult, too)... great stuff! Everything really changed in that summer in 2010 when Buster was called up - the rest, is history. #Gigantes!
ReplyDeletePart of the reason I went with Buster was because of his call up changing the landscape forever.
DeleteThis is a great read! I mostly agree, especially that this is a dynasty. The term I've been using since 2009 has been "Team of the 2010's".
ReplyDeleteSome additional color or points I came up with:
I would add that Bochy knows when it's "Go Time". Fans would deride him because he wouldn't play young players in SD, but clearly, as a Giants fan, he won't play them if they are not producing, same with vets, but since the vets at least have a history of performance, he gives them a longer leash and repeated chances. Still, people overlook how he gave Lewis, Ellison, Niekro, Schierholtz, Ishikawa, Bowker, and Belt multiple chances to take the starting job and make it their own, or the fact that Cain, Lowry, Lincecum, Wilson, Romo, Bumgarner, and Strickland were all young guys who Bochy thrusted into important roles, and pretty much kept them in there.
I was not a Bochy fan until late in the 2010 season when he started sitting down vets like Rowand, to play productive guys like Torres. There is a time in the season when you need to forget about the ego of the players and you just focus on just winning. He won a fan with his moves late that season.
Then when he left Zito off the playoff roster, I was in love. And I was amazed that in spite of what most players would view as an insult, he still was able to continue to work productively with Zito, Sandoval, Linceum, and others, who he sat down (he skipped a Bumgarner playoff start too, I just remembered) in order to win that game that day. He is a master of managing men, and drawing the best out of them without alienating them (well, most of them).
Left out some other Sabean gems: Kent, Ellis Burks, Nen, Schmidt, Winn. I would add Lowry to the draft win list.
I would add Lincecum's great relief appearances in 2012 as key to winning, particularly given how we faced so many elimination games in the NL games.
I agree about the Core Four wholeheartedly! Sabers who don't understand the importance of reliable relievers don't know what they are missing in their hubris.
Agree about Pence and Sandoval. They have also been key participants, though I would note that Sandoval was pretty useless in 2010 (he was benched in order to play Renteria in the WS), it was only 2012 and 2014 where he shined.
I assume you lumped all the coaches together in order to include ownership, which was important too, for the reasons you state. But I would single out Righetti as someone ahead of everyone else because of the significance of pitching to our dynasty.
I would note that Scutaro also produced 2+ WAR in 2013, even if it were injury marred and prematurely ended. He almost paid off his contract (at $6.5M per WAR) in that season, and would have had he played the whole season. That's why it bugs me when people complain about his contract as being bad, it wasn't great, but he almost paid it off, which is way more than can be said about Zito, Rowand, or Huff. He earned it all, really, with his play in 2012, as well.
I think you needed to add Renteria to the HM list, he was our first WS MVP, he hit great, hit the winning homer in the winning game, he also tearfully gave his own Pence speech at the end of August, talking about how it's the end of the line for him, and how he wanted to win it one more time. All the other's work would have gone for naught had he not caught fire in the WS (which apparently came from him finally tearing off fully a tendon that had been causing him pain, and affecting his swing, in his arm; when it finally tore off, the pain was suddenly all gone, so he could swing freely again).
And yes, without those seven men, there would not have been a 2010, and there would be not as much talk about Dynasty, or rather, there would be talk of a budding one, not talk of there being one.